Discussion:
[Coq-Club] Folklore ?
Pierre Casteran
2018-10-02 16:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good reference in the litterature.
Sorry if it is the case.

The question is :
Does there exists a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ... , Hn |- False, which is provable in classical logic, but not in intuitionnistic logic ?
All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by tauto.

If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof of that ?

Pierre
Dan Frumin
2018-10-02 17:08:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi Pierre,

I don't think such sequent exists.

W.l.o.g. we can consider the case P |- False.
By deduction lemma we get that |- P -> False is provable classically.
But then by Gilvenko's theorem |- ((P -> False) -> False) -> False is provable intuitionistically.
In this specific case we can eliminate double negation and get |- P -> False intuitonistically.


Best,
-Dan
Hi,
  It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good reference in the litterature.
  Sorry if it is the case.
  Does there exists a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ... , Hn |- False, which is provable in classical logic, but not in intuitionnistic logic ?
  All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by tauto.
  If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof of that ?
Pierre
Guillaume Melquiond
2018-10-02 17:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
  It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good reference
in the litterature.
  Sorry if it is the case.
  Does there exists a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ... , Hn
|- False, which is provable in classical logic, but not in
intuitionnistic logic ?
  All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by tauto.
  If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof of that ?
Unless I am missing something, this is a corollary of the
double-negation translation (Glivenko). In other words, if P -> False is
provable in classical logic, then ((P -> False) -> False) -> False is
provable in intuitionistic logic, which intuitionistically implies P ->
False.

Best regards,

Guillaume
Shahab Tasharrofi
2018-10-02 18:03:50 UTC
Permalink
In addition to what others said, you can also generalize it to first-order
logic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-negation_translation

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 1:09 PM Guillaume Melquiond <
Post by Pierre Casteran
Post by Pierre Casteran
Hi,
It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good reference
in the litterature.
Sorry if it is the case.
Does there exists a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ... , Hn
|- False, which is provable in classical logic, but not in
intuitionnistic logic ?
All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by tauto.
If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof of
that ?
Unless I am missing something, this is a corollary of the
double-negation translation (Glivenko). In other words, if P -> False is
provable in classical logic, then ((P -> False) -> False) -> False is
provable in intuitionistic logic, which intuitionistically implies P ->
False.
Best regards,
Guillaume
Thorsten Altenkirch
2018-10-03 12:15:13 UTC
Permalink
Thank you, Valentin.

It is true that the double negation of PEM is provable intuitionistically, that is ~~(P \/ ~P) for all P:Prop, but it is not true the double negation of universally quantified PEM is provable, that is ~~(forall x:A.P x \/ ~ P x) is not provable, and indeed if we accept Church's priniciple we may want that ~ forall n:Nat.Hold(n) \/ ~Hold(n) is provable (Here Hold(n) means that the nth TM applied to n terminates).

Thorsten
On 03/10/2018, 08:38, "coq-club-***@inria.fr on b

ehalf of Valentin Blot" <coq-club-***@inria.fr on behalf of coq-***@valentinblot.org> wrote:

One has to be careful when dealing with negative translation and first-
order logic. The same argument does not go through because there are
formulas that do not intuitionistically imply their negative
translation. From P -> False in classical logic you still get Pn ->
False in intuitionistic logic (where Pn is the negative translation of
P), but from there you cannot conclude P -> False because you may not
have P -> Pn intuitionistically.

Valentin
Post by Shahab Tasharrofi
In addition to what others said, you can also generalize it to first-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-negation_translation
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 1:09 PM Guillaume Melquiond <
Post by Pierre Casteran
Post by Pierre Casteran
Hi,
It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good
reference
Post by Pierre Casteran
in the litterature.
Sorry if it is the case.
Does there exists a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ...
, Hn
Post by Pierre Casteran
|- False, which is provable in classical logic, but not in
intuitionnistic logic ?
All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by
tauto.
Post by Pierre Casteran
If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof
of that ?
Unless I am missing something, this is a corollary of the
double-negation translation (Glivenko). In other words, if P -> False is
provable in classical logic, then ((P -> False) -> False) -> False is
provable in intuitionistic logic, which intuitionistically implies P ->
False.
Best regards,
Guillaume
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Daniel Schepler
2018-10-02 23:24:42 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 10:09 AM Guillaume Melquiond
Post by Guillaume Melquiond
Post by Pierre Casteran
Hi,
It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good reference
in the litterature.
Sorry if it is the case.
Does there exists a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ... , Hn
|- False, which is provable in classical logic, but not in
intuitionnistic logic ?
All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by tauto.
If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof of that ?
Unless I am missing something, this is a corollary of the
double-negation translation (Glivenko). In other words, if P -> False is
provable in classical logic, then ((P -> False) -> False) -> False is
provable in intuitionistic logic, which intuitionistically implies P ->
False.
Minor variant of this argument: More generally, Gamma |- P in
classical propositional logic if and only if Gamma |- ~~P in
intuitionistic propositional logic. So, if H1, H2, ..., Hn |- False
classically, then H1, H2, ..., Hn |- (False -> False) -> False
intuitionistically. But clearly, H1, H2, ..., Hn |- (False -> False)
intuitionistically also, so it would follow that H1, H2, ..., Hn |-
False intuitionistically.
--
Daniel
sunil
2018-10-02 18:36:58 UTC
Permalink
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folklore.
Post by Pierre Casteran
Hi,
It's probably a folklore result, but I didn't find a good reference in the litterature.
Please define term folklore .
Post by Pierre Casteran
Sorry if it is the case.
.
Does there exists
,
Post by Pierre Casteran
a sequent of propositional logic H1, H2, ... , Hn |- False,
.
Post by Pierre Casteran
which is provable in classical logic, but not in intuitionnistic logic ?
All the examples I tried have been succesfully proved by tauto.
.
Post by Pierre Casteran
If it does not exists, is there a known (constructive ?) proof of that ?
Pierre
- suneel sarswat
Yes/no?
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